@javierk2143 Honestly, I'm not sure it does. I cannot find ANY valid source that indicates it stands for "life viable." Technically LV426 isn't viable for life at all unless terraformed as it was. I don't think it was supposed to be an acronym at all. Its true meaning is whatever motivated them to use "LV."
Great content as usual. Keep up the stellar work. I know I'm in the minority but I love Prometheus/Covenant and the direction the story was taking with David etc (even though both films had their flaws). I loved that they were trying to push the story beyond being another Alien stalking crew in tight corridors film...they at least tried to introduce larger themes...of which I am a fan.
Only thing I like different between the comics and movies is that in the comics the Space Jockys are actually a separate species from the Engineers and in the comics actually goes into their races fighting one another. I will say there was one comic that shows how Engineers could potentially be Space Jockys being not only their regular biomechanical suit but also an exterior space habitable suit for extreme environments that enclosed their regular biomechanical suits. Thinking of it that way makes it a little more plausible.
Ultimately I agree with Lindelof's assessment: they're contentious but interesting. I also agree with you that they can coexist with the Jockey, it just makes sense the Engineers would take that iconic look from *something* outside themselves. There's an artist, Matt Schaefer, who's PILOT project rolls with that interpretation, and it looks quite fascinating. Really I'd rather the IP holders continue broadening the universe rather than restrict it. After all, the more vast your space, the more wonders and horrors it can house.
I hope we get more films featuring the engineers in some capacity, either dead and gone, or alive. And I hope more questions are raised than answers. They inject a very unique cosmic horror angle that I adore. Same with the black liquid.
I finally got to watch Alien Expanded. I'm so happy my husband bought it for me. I also did see my name in the credits too🤣. It was nice to put a face too your voice. I also love Yankee Candles. You had a couple burning in the back on that shelf. I did learn so much more about the movie and from all the actors. Thank you for all your great work. ♥️♥️
How could this interpretation piss anyone off? The fleshing out of the Engineers and their role in the series, and their beauty has thrilled me since i saw the first one drink the pathogen and sacrifice itself. Linking them to Ancient Alien creators of humans is AWESOME to me.
Agree. I was looking forward to learning more about them. It is understandable though why people didn't like Prometheus because it wasn't an "Alien" like film.
Likewise, I don't understand the hatred towards PROMETHEUS. It's a damn good movie and Ridley Scott expanded and made the world of Alien that much more rich and mysterious! Also, Elizabeth Shaw is very much a badass female in this universe as much as she is a tragic character.
I will tell you why, as both an Alien and Prometheus fan, the reason it didn't vibe with most is because it's barely an Alien movie at all. If they hadn't marketed it as an Alien prequel, no one would have had any complaints, but we were promised a prequel, and one was not delivered. That being said, it is a gorgeously shot cinematic Sci-Fi masterpiece with a killer soundtrack track. Also, they gave us one of the best characters in the series, David.. Besides Ripley, Hicks, and Hudson, of course. Despite all of that, the Deacon idea is OK if they had done something more with it. Killing Shaw off screen was a sin. Lastly, making the Space Jockey into humanoid Engineers will forever be a fumble imo. Had they been 2 different races, fine, but the change to me was unnecessary and ruined a lot of fan theories.
Shouldn't even have had humans in those movies. Just show the Engineers going about their business, creating life, destroying it, exploring planets, having lunch, all with no subtitles.
I really wanted the one in Prometheus to make friends with Shaw. Watching him casually grab David and pull his head off like a GI Joe, then beat Weyland to death with the head is probably my favorite scene.
There’s no way they’re done with these guys, I hope a good writer does good things with them. I’d love to see you cover Stronghold, the plot centering around the synthetics and the iconic Jeri make it one of my favorite alien comics of all time.
I remember in the commentary of the 1st Alien film, when Ridley stated the eggs were cargo and created for Bio mechanical engineered warfare, which pre-dates the Prometheus film..
One thing i must mention that i really do appreciate about your style. You focus on the content and what's already been written/shown on screen or off in novel's ect ect. Meaning you hardly ever just make things up. These video are almost like a new version of AUDIO BOOKS (with visuals) for free on YT 😆😁 Great stuff indeed
i would love see more of that, i hope for series with 2-3 seasons that ties all events together and answer those questions. its a good new sci-fi world and i wanted to discover it.
You forgot to mention that in the Fire and Stone storyline we get to see various species that clearly worship the Engineers through Ahab’s flashbacks across his hundred year search for the species. In the Life and Death the characters Melville and Foster get into a very engaging discussion about the Engineers motives on killing their creations. “It's all speculation. But there's absolutely no possibility of contact or negotiation with the Engineers. They are hostile on sight. Either they hate all life-forms, or they have a particular problem with their creations. They kill us. They kill bugs. Bugs kill us. We fight back against everything. Which is why having Ahab in our corner helps. We are at the bottom of the food chain." "Why... Why would something so evidently advanced act with such hostility against its own creations?" "Who knows, Mr. Melville? Maybe we're accidents. Or disappointments.”
My personal feeling as to why they react this way is we’ve moved beyond a point where we can be subservient, we start to reach their level which threatens their position as the dominant species and the gods of life in the universe.
19:44 That was what I'm exploring in my prequel fan-fiction rewrite: That there are 2 different species we're looking at: The Engineers (the Soldiers, if you will) & the Jockies (pilots).
@ Thanks for the question! I was going to throw it on the AVP Galaxy forum when I was done with it. I’m writing it longhand as an epic novel (like Lucas’ The Star Wars). Including Awakening, I’m looking at about 1200 pages in length maybe?
ive always liked the Engineers and the pathogen but something about them always seemed off, I like to think that the original engineer in Alien was a space jockey and the new engineers viewed them as a higher being so that's why their armor look the same. great video as always!
@28:36 “Dr. Elizabeth Shaw never got her answers…” I sooo wanted the humanoid xeno that Crudup shoots in COVENANT to actually be Shaw. It would have been interesting to have the characters grapple w/ having to put down a once human being with unknown temperament becuz it’s lethal potential. Frankenstein’s (David’s) monster. While I loved most of Prometheus, Covenant was just wasted potential. From start to finish.
Dude, chill.. 1. They cast Danny McBride 2. To play a character named “Tennessee” 3. Who constantly wears a cowboy hat 4. Who loves his Jack Daniels! 5. Who knows John Denver tunes so well he can pull out a melody from a distorted recording of a person mumbling. All that was missing was for him to chew straw. Lol. I paid opening day, THEY s-t the bed. Move on.
Re: Prometheus. The character Fifield in Prometheus was ridiculous. Unless a cogent explanation for his behaviour lies trampled into the editing room floor. And the character Milburn ignoring a lifetime of knowledge that reptilian-like creatures are not like baby puppies😂 Poorly written characters will destroy even the most tantalising story. So sad because there is so much potential to tell multiple stories. I agree, Covenant was wasted.
I think adding the fact that weird human aliens created mankind in the fifth entry of an established series requires a ridiculous jump in suspension of disbelief, and it is way too grand in scope to match with the more grounded sci-fi that made the series great. It would be like adding dinosaurs to a Jason Bourne movie or revealing in the fifth Die Hard that John McClane is actually a genetically modified supersoldier.
It's a series about an extremely hostile life form that is, to quote Ash, "a perfect organism". It raises the question of where could such a perfect organism come from, which can easily slip into "where did humans come from?" - not that much of a leap in my opinion. The original film also contained an unidentified spaceship full of xeno eggs and a fossilised pilot, obviously that leaves a lot of room for this story to be told.
I really love the Alien TTRPG and the group Ive been playing with. This book has added a lot of lore that is something to think on and while I dont know or think it should be cannon, I like to think it is as it tries to take all of the material of the movies and tie them together. I cant wait for the 2E to see what else they add.
The death knell already happened when prometheus tried to tell us that the space jockey is just a stupid bald blue human looking guy in a suit....that also happened to create humans bc everything has to be contrived and world-shrinking now.
Wow your subscriber count has really kicked up lately, at least since I started watching a couple years ago. Thanks for the amazing content over the years and here's to many more to come!
Hey Alien theory...... It just occurred to me that from the side the engineers putting on or wearing their biomask kind of looks like a face hugger on their face with the tail hanging down.
12:40 Another perfect example that the greatest, most memorable creations are rarely made on scientific merit alone. For a product to be elevated to an era or even species defining status, everything has to fall in place perfectly. And with a catchy name like that, their agent was obviously destined for greatness from its inception.
@TheSCPStudio or it's an example of an individual looking at both versions of a character and preferring one over the other... understanding that would be great personal growth for you.
I'm an Alien fan all my life, and the Prometheus movie added to the story so beautifully, it made Prometheus my favorite movie of all time. I only wished the sequel explored the engineers more.
I like the engineers and their history, cool video. My issue with Scott is the Prometheus and Alien Covenant. I’m not a fan of the space mold causing creatures to burst out.
Why? Because of that point the elephantine look was familiar? That it matched immediate assumptions of seeing thr giant form on the ship? That it was more comprehensible as just alien rather than the uncomfortable questions upon learning it looks much closer to a human? It is well match for a franchise that already set itself up around appearances can be deceiving, and from a scene where the humans themselves are in suits that alter their appearance.
@@maxmercer1931 You think Covenant would have been fixed with giant elephant men? I do think David designing xenomorph is a bit silly, and I had to come up with the theory that perhaps the xenomorph is just an inevitability in the black goo and David is not as creative as he actually thinks. Perhaps creating something that already exists.
I think what would be terrifying for humanity would be that if we got into space and found another race that looked identical to us, meaning we arnt special and humanity is a common thing in the galaxy
I do, too, but they need a "big bad" of their own to explain why they build such devastating weapons such as the pathogen, which I choose to believe is the Space Jockeys who they try to emulate because they are THEIR creators.
I loved your video about how Prometheus was a remake of AvP. 😁 I tried finding those collected books, Fire and Stone and Life and Death and wholly crap are they expensive!!!
I really wish they had stuck with the original design for the Space Jockeys without humanising them. I feel like Prometheus could have been truly terrifying if they had. Imagine a living Space Jockey with the rebreather hanging from it's face, stalking Shaw and Co. through the halls of the derelict ship, that's what I was hoping to see. I enjoyed Prometheus but was also disappointed, I feel like there was a distinct lack of imagination in several areas of the film, particularly the monster design.
I wonder how much Dan O'Bannon was considering the space-folding, spice-addicted pilots from Dune. I could understand a design that the space jockey is like a thoroughly mutated engineer. Although tbh, no explanation of these aliens at all is more terrifying.
What made me mad with these guys was that I loved the idea of them. I just didn't like either of the movies they were introduced in. Romulus may have been a mixed bag but their appearance in that movie was actually a really neat surprise and I loved it.
the entire conceit of the Engineers was so underwhelming for me but it is the story now so i can only hope that if encounter them again they serve a trully interesting purpose
Wish we could see the warrior culture of the engineers. I believe I read somewhere that the warrior part of their society are not allowed onto their home world.
I think the Engineers are like the Arcturians, humans who got abducted and mutated by the original, real and true Space Jockeys. Maybe as some sort of disciples, which would explain how they managed to copy the Space Jockey biotechnology. And the time travel has to be a big no-no. Time travel has always been an endless fountain of plot holes. Must be avoided like the plague.
I like the engineers but what ‘pisses me off’ is how I feel Ridley didn’t do them justice.. the films are supposed to explore them more yet we don’t see their homeworld, we don’t learn much more about their species.. they’re effectively just a cameo in films which are supposed to shine a spotlight on them.
It's that school of modern narrative where everything is an origin, forever, and nothing that matters about the characters or the world is ever explored in an interesting way.
I'd rather never see them or anything from Prometheus and Covenant ever again. The worst part of Romulus was the engineer creature and black goo showing up. Ruined the film for me.
@@scottneil1187 we need to tailor these films, media and content to your tastes so the franchise revitalizes and grows out of our thorax for your enjoyment. Discovery awaits. Other than that nice involvement you have here
I do love the idea that the Engineers are somehow related to a previous Space Jockey civilization. The fact this is a crackpot theory in-universe too makes it even better. My personal headcanon on this is that the Space Jockeys created the Engineers to be the equivalent of Synthetics (doing menial labor, etc.). But eventually the Engineers rebelled against them & struck out on their own. & while they kept much of the Space Jockey's biomechanical technology & designs, their creations were more mechanical than biological. Hence why their ships look organic, similar to the Space Jockey's on LV-426, except made of just metal & why their suits are still biomechanical: they're designs taken/inherited from their creators.
My favourite head cannon is that the engineers we see in Prometheus and in covenant are a seed race, and that the space jockeys from alien are the original. Please let there be hope and reject some mystery back into the series
I like the Engineers' inclusion to the Alien universe very much. I do hope we'll get more lore and movies in the future. I have the Alien RPG and its handled very well in there
0:36 Or *Leviticus-223* Look that up in the Bible. I luv the Engineers in Prometheus, their design is very unique how their biosuits seem to meld with their skin, it leaves the idea that they themselves may actually be Artificial versions of the actual Engineers in robes, specifically the Sacrificial Engineer in the opening prologue of the movie. It just never bothered me that Ridley chose to make that Elephantine "Space Jockey" from ALIEN a complete outer-suit; or "Chair suit". Because how I look at it, studying the *Space Jockey* sitting in that chair you can clearly see not just the Elephantine head with trunk, but two very distinct, long ARMS. So at end of the day the Space Jockey itself is still very much HUMANOID! This is what I dont get about many Prometheus haters and fans who hate the approach Ridley took for the Engineers. Even in a old Alien comic that explores backstory to the "Space Jockeys" it shows them with a totally Humanoid design, standing upright, bipedal with Arms, Legs, and their elephantine head, wearing a space suit kind of protective helmet. Still totally humanoid. So no one has ever even tried to make the Space Jockeys look spectacularly ALIEN, and I mean like those Martian beings in War of the Worlds. Ridley added so much *World Building* to the Engineers/Space Jockeys. Them looking totally Human, just with Greco, Marble like skin tone, no hair follicles whatsoever, is original and plays more toward that whole "Ancient Astronaut" theory. Thats purely what Ridley Scott was going for, the idea that they created us; and even Holloway asks "but who created them?" Ofwhich his question is never answered but you could say GOD, created the Engineers, in God's own image.
Jon’s reasoning for the space jockeys being…too alien essentially for a story is wild. I like the idea of the engineers. But I am insanely disappointed by how afraid and narrow minded they were to embrace the space jockeys. Making them human like isn’t “afraid to piss people off” to me. It’s afraid to dream big and get creative. And it shows in the film. Prometheus is fun but rushed and weirdly simple, a can of worms and definitely a positive addition but man. It’s fun to talk about to this day! Good or bad!
I feel making them look "Human" as in WE are based off of them is fine, but what they should have gone for was to make the Engineers totally "Alien" to us, as in they are not War like in anyway. Their art looks totally weird and hideous to us because they see things very differently to us. Their reverence of the Xenomorph, how they see other lifeforms. It should really be that everything about their way of life, and thinking should be absolutely unrelatable to us, alien and just almost inconceivable, almost incomprehensible.
I want to know, in detail so to speak - what was on the mural in the ampule room, what did it mean? What was going on? I personally like the idea of the engineers but I think Ridley dropped the ball big time , coulda been great.
I am so pumped about Alien Earth. I am eager to watch a show about Alien where the whole crew isn't killed one by one until the movie ends. Engineers? Creation mythos? ...Sign me up...
The channel Project ACHERON has a animated series Alien Awakening that takes a different approach of this lore. Combining Engineer & the original Space Jockey as two separate entities weaving a different tale that truly feels very atmospheric and eerie mythos.
I would like to learn more about the engineers and the black goo. Why was the goo made? Are the engineers extinct? I’m curious about their history, plus how much they know about xenomorphs.
The way music is mentioend as a language and a way to see various things, almost as if talking of other dimensions, reminds me of a Lovectaftian short story, the music of Eric Zhan. On your last point, I would like them to see a deeper exploration into the Engineer civilization. As you said, maybe they were imitating their creators, the space jockey and the space jockey themselves could not be the first creators but be a reflection of something beyond our comprehension, even beyond theirs. It harkens back to creators and creations, becoming arrogant and calling ourselves gods, first the Space Jockeys, then the Engineers, then us, then androids. A vicious cycle. As to the time traveling aspect, I think the Marvel crossover comics AVA can provide interesting ideas that could make this canon a way. Maybe they have learned how to traverse different realities. Sort of like the Watchers species but not yet that advanced.
Great video. The engineers are a real mystery I hope we get explore in more depth in future films and tv (Alien: Earth). One aspect I hoped you’d touch on was the drastic difference in spacecraft design between the Prometheus prologue and the design of the juggernaut. Could this just be an evolution of design or a subtle hint that there are 2 factions of engineers: ones that seed life, and ones that destroy it?
I was today years old when I learned that "LV" stands for "Life Viable". That's an awesome little tidbit.
"LIFE VIABLE"!?! Omg I've followed this franchise for 46 years and only learned LV is "life viable" TODAY.
@mgabriel2636 Same though!!!
I remember once reading that LV was a reference to the Bible's Leviticus. With LV223 being Leviticus 22:3
I feel strange
@javierk2143 Honestly, I'm not sure it does. I cannot find ANY valid source that indicates it stands for "life viable." Technically LV426 isn't viable for life at all unless terraformed as it was. I don't think it was supposed to be an acronym at all. Its true meaning is whatever motivated them to use "LV."
I hope you never get bored because i love this channel
Love these longer videos. Always listen to them when it’s time for the paperwork part of the job. Great work as usual.
This was great. Sent it to my mom, she's a huge fan of Alien and the Engineers
So is mine!
Great content as usual. Keep up the stellar work.
I know I'm in the minority but I love Prometheus/Covenant and the direction the story was taking with David etc (even though both films had their flaws). I loved that they were trying to push the story beyond being another Alien stalking crew in tight corridors film...they at least tried to introduce larger themes...of which I am a fan.
Only thing I like different between the comics and movies is that in the comics the Space Jockys are actually a separate species from the Engineers and in the comics actually goes into their races fighting one another. I will say there was one comic that shows how Engineers could potentially be Space Jockys being not only their regular biomechanical suit but also an exterior space habitable suit for extreme environments that enclosed their regular biomechanical suits. Thinking of it that way makes it a little more plausible.
Ultimately I agree with Lindelof's assessment: they're contentious but interesting. I also agree with you that they can coexist with the Jockey, it just makes sense the Engineers would take that iconic look from *something* outside themselves. There's an artist, Matt Schaefer, who's PILOT project rolls with that interpretation, and it looks quite fascinating. Really I'd rather the IP holders continue broadening the universe rather than restrict it. After all, the more vast your space, the more wonders and horrors it can house.
I hope we get more films featuring the engineers in some capacity, either dead and gone, or alive. And I hope more questions are raised than answers. They inject a very unique cosmic horror angle that I adore. Same with the black liquid.
No, please no.
Ian White killing Waylon twice in two timeline as two different characters is actually badass lol
Just fyi it's Weyland 😊 but I agree. It's so cool that he got to kill 2 different Weylands!!! 😂
It really is! Imagine him and Lance Henrikson meeting again in 2011 when they got down to filming Prometheus lol.
kind of like the inverse of Bill Paxton getting killed by the Terminator and the Predator
Best channel ever! For years now, every time I see a new video come out, I get happy like a little kid about to open his presents on Christmas lol.
I finally got to watch Alien Expanded. I'm so happy my husband bought it for me. I also did see my name in the credits too🤣. It was nice to put a face too your voice. I also love Yankee Candles. You had a couple burning in the back on that shelf. I did learn so much more about the movie and from all the actors. Thank you for all your great work. ♥️♥️
Thank you. It was great to be a part of the documentary… and what can I say? I really love Yankee Candles!
How could this interpretation piss anyone off? The fleshing out of the Engineers and their role in the series, and their beauty has thrilled me since i saw the first one drink the pathogen and sacrifice itself. Linking them to Ancient Alien creators of humans is AWESOME to me.
Agree. I was looking forward to learning more about them. It is understandable though why people didn't like Prometheus because it wasn't an "Alien" like film.
Likewise, I don't understand the hatred towards PROMETHEUS. It's a damn good movie and Ridley Scott expanded and made the world of Alien that much more rich and mysterious! Also, Elizabeth Shaw is very much a badass female in this universe as much as she is a tragic character.
But the idea that they're time travelling, goo-evolved humans, if they follow through with that plan, is likely to enrage fans though.
I will tell you why, as both an Alien and Prometheus fan, the reason it didn't vibe with most is because it's barely an Alien movie at all. If they hadn't marketed it as an Alien prequel, no one would have had any complaints, but we were promised a prequel, and one was not delivered. That being said, it is a gorgeously shot cinematic Sci-Fi masterpiece with a killer soundtrack track. Also, they gave us one of the best characters in the series, David.. Besides Ripley, Hicks, and Hudson, of course.
Despite all of that, the Deacon idea is OK if they had done something more with it. Killing Shaw off screen was a sin. Lastly, making the Space Jockey into humanoid Engineers will forever be a fumble imo. Had they been 2 different races, fine, but the change to me was unnecessary and ruined a lot of fan theories.
lame, contrived, and world-shrinking.
I loved the engineer aspect and I am hoping we get more of them soon
the engineers are a great idea. now we just need good writers to answer the questions raised in Prometheus and Covenant.
Nope
Like, why were those monstrosities of films even made?.
I don’t want more answers. The cosmic horror “charm” of Prometheus and Covenant is in the lack of answers.
@@scottneil1187 prometheus was good. i get why people dislike covenant though
I don't want another movie that simply brings up more questions.
Shouldn't even have had humans in those movies. Just show the Engineers going about their business, creating life, destroying it, exploring planets, having lunch, all with no subtitles.
I wonder what they have for lunch
@BrandonCoast anti-gravity nachos!
@@Gurgamo With that mad concept of "Anti-Gravity Nachos" an entire franchise was born!
@BrandonPhilipps-r9b it finally solves the problem of the top nachos getting all the cheese and toppings while you bottom ones end up with nothing.
I wanted the same...i wanted it to be like apocalypto with the ship at the end of the movie to be the nostromo.
YES Engineers! I've been hoping for this! Thank you!
I’m really thankful this isn’t ai generated slop
What a great start to my Friday. I love the Engineers and I love this channel. Thanks for covering this topic!
I've been waiting to listen all day! Forgot my bluetooths for work, and it was torture knowing this was waiting for me! ❤
Finally exploring into the RPG materials! It's an absolute treasure trove there!
I really wanted the one in Prometheus to make friends with Shaw. Watching him casually grab David and pull his head off like a GI Joe, then beat Weyland to death with the head is probably my favorite scene.
There’s no way they’re done with these guys, I hope a good writer does good things with them.
I’d love to see you cover Stronghold, the plot centering around the synthetics and the iconic Jeri make it one of my favorite alien comics of all time.
Dallas got it wrong, though: Things can’t fossilize in open air, but they *can* mummify.
I remember in the commentary of the 1st Alien film, when Ridley stated the eggs were cargo and created for Bio mechanical engineered warfare, which pre-dates the Prometheus film..
One thing i must mention that i really do appreciate about your style. You focus on the content and what's already been written/shown on screen or off in novel's ect ect. Meaning you hardly ever just make things up. These video are almost like a new version of AUDIO BOOKS (with visuals) for free on YT 😆😁 Great stuff indeed
He's gotten really good at reading the comic stories and blending them with the novels.
i would love see more of that, i hope for series with 2-3 seasons that ties all events together and answer those questions. its a good new sci-fi world and i wanted to discover it.
You forgot to mention that in the Fire and Stone storyline we get to see various species that clearly worship the Engineers through Ahab’s flashbacks across his hundred year search for the species.
In the Life and Death the characters Melville and Foster get into a very engaging discussion about the Engineers motives on killing their creations.
“It's all speculation. But there's absolutely no possibility of contact or negotiation with the Engineers. They are hostile on sight. Either they hate all life-forms, or they have a particular problem with their creations. They kill us. They kill bugs. Bugs kill us. We fight back against everything. Which is why having Ahab in our corner helps. We are at the bottom of the food chain."
"Why... Why would something so evidently advanced act with such hostility against its own creations?"
"Who knows, Mr. Melville? Maybe we're accidents. Or disappointments.”
My personal feeling as to why they react this way is we’ve moved beyond a point where we can be subservient, we start to reach their level which threatens their position as the dominant species and the gods of life in the universe.
I, for one, am fascinated by the Engineers. I'd love further exploration of their history, culture and technology in future Alien media.
So, so good, once again. Masterpiece presentation. Bravo.
19:44 That was what I'm exploring in my prequel fan-fiction rewrite: That there are 2 different species we're looking at: The Engineers (the Soldiers, if you will) & the Jockies (pilots).
OMG. where cqn I find your fanfic pls ?
@ Thanks for the question! I was going to throw it on the AVP Galaxy forum when I was done with it. I’m writing it longhand as an epic novel (like Lucas’ The Star Wars). Including Awakening, I’m looking at about 1200 pages in length maybe?
ive always liked the Engineers and the pathogen but something about them always seemed off, I like to think that the original engineer in Alien was a space jockey and the new engineers viewed them as a higher being so that's why their armor look the same. great video as always!
@28:36 “Dr. Elizabeth Shaw never got her answers…”
I sooo wanted the humanoid xeno that Crudup shoots in COVENANT to actually be Shaw. It would have been interesting to have the characters grapple w/ having to put down a once human being with unknown temperament becuz it’s lethal potential. Frankenstein’s (David’s) monster.
While I loved most of Prometheus, Covenant was just wasted potential. From start to finish.
Dude, chill..
1. They cast Danny McBride
2. To play a character named “Tennessee”
3. Who constantly wears a cowboy hat
4. Who loves his Jack Daniels!
5. Who knows John Denver tunes so well he can pull out a melody from a distorted recording of a person mumbling.
All that was missing was for him to chew straw. Lol. I paid opening day, THEY s-t the bed. Move on.
Re: Prometheus. The character Fifield in Prometheus was ridiculous. Unless a cogent explanation for his behaviour lies trampled into the editing room floor. And the character Milburn ignoring a lifetime of knowledge that reptilian-like creatures are not like baby puppies😂
Poorly written characters will destroy even the most tantalising story. So sad because there is so much potential to tell multiple stories.
I agree, Covenant was wasted.
Mossy: Then they put that lack of risk assessment in EVERY character in COVENANT. Weird.
I think adding the fact that weird human aliens created mankind in the fifth entry of an established series requires a ridiculous jump in suspension of disbelief, and it is way too grand in scope to match with the more grounded sci-fi that made the series great. It would be like adding dinosaurs to a Jason Bourne movie or revealing in the fifth Die Hard that John McClane is actually a genetically modified supersoldier.
It's a series about an extremely hostile life form that is, to quote Ash, "a perfect organism". It raises the question of where could such a perfect organism come from, which can easily slip into "where did humans come from?" - not that much of a leap in my opinion. The original film also contained an unidentified spaceship full of xeno eggs and a fossilised pilot, obviously that leaves a lot of room for this story to be told.
@@preezy85 an artificial mind would also think that corn is a perfect lifeform. Life is more than subjectively desired traits on a spreadsheet.
The alien franchise is not “ground sci-fi,” like come on.
@@StevenRayMorris More grounded than "giant albinos created humanity"
I really love the Alien TTRPG and the group Ive been playing with. This book has added a lot of lore that is something to think on and while I dont know or think it should be cannon, I like to think it is as it tries to take all of the material of the movies and tie them together. I cant wait for the 2E to see what else they add.
Canon my dude. A cannon is a weapon.
@scottneil1187 Thats what I said, cannon. You know, it goes pew pew. Keep up with the convo.
Time traveling engineers would be the death knell of the Alien franchise
Especially if they're goo-evolved humans from the future.
The death knell already happened when prometheus tried to tell us that the space jockey is just a stupid bald blue human looking guy in a suit....that also happened to create humans bc everything has to be contrived and world-shrinking now.
@@MrAdam802 I agree. How about "time traveling engineers would be the nail in the coffin of the Alien franchise"?
Similar to the multiverse silliness..
Wow your subscriber count has really kicked up lately, at least since I started watching a couple years ago.
Thanks for the amazing content over the years and here's to many more to come!
Silence, history class has started 📚🧬
Man holy cow, I really love this comment. Thank you for school nostalgia and the smile I carry now. I wish you a great day fellow fan
I'm very eager to learn more, and to have the story of the engineers thoroughly explored.
Hey Alien theory......
It just occurred to me that from the side the engineers putting on or wearing their biomask kind of looks like a face hugger on their face with the tail hanging down.
12:40 Another perfect example that the greatest, most memorable creations are rarely made on scientific merit alone. For a product to be elevated to an era or even species defining status, everything has to fall in place perfectly. And with a catchy name like that, their agent was obviously destined for greatness from its inception.
Literally praying for a video about the Engineers
I'm not crazy about the Engineers. I grew up with the novels and comic books, so I'm still more partial to the elephantine Mala'kak species.
100% and I certainly didn’t look at Gigers incredible space jockey set and go “I bet he has a flute”
@TheSCPStudio or it's an example of an individual looking at both versions of a character and preferring one over the other... understanding that would be great personal growth for you.
I'm an Alien fan all my life, and the Prometheus movie added to the story so beautifully, it made Prometheus my favorite movie of all time. I only wished the sequel explored the engineers more.
I like the engineers and their history, cool video. My issue with Scott is the Prometheus and Alien Covenant. I’m not a fan of the space mold causing creatures to burst out.
I was just thinking about alien and then this video came out
That's my secret. I'm always thinking about Alien...
Algorithm reading your mind.
"LIFE VIABLE"!?! Omg I've followed this franchise for 46 years and only learned LV is "life viable" TODAY.
Because it's a fan name, it's not official.
I thought it was Levi's
Same
It’s not canon.
Big shout out to you for consistently delivering quality.
Sooo good, just like literally every other video produced by this channel!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ridley Scott should have kept the Space Jockeys as elephantine aliens
Ridley Scott should have retired decades ago. He hasn't made a good film in forever.
Why? Because of that point the elephantine look was familiar? That it matched immediate assumptions of seeing thr giant form on the ship? That it was more comprehensible as just alien rather than the uncomfortable questions upon learning it looks much closer to a human?
It is well match for a franchise that already set itself up around appearances can be deceiving, and from a scene where the humans themselves are in suits that alter their appearance.
@DuskyPredator I can see you enjoyed the execrable Alien Covenant
@@maxmercer1931 You think Covenant would have been fixed with giant elephant men?
I do think David designing xenomorph is a bit silly, and I had to come up with the theory that perhaps the xenomorph is just an inevitability in the black goo and David is not as creative as he actually thinks. Perhaps creating something that already exists.
@DuskyPredator you like Covenant. Opinion discarded
I think what would be terrifying for humanity would be that if we got into space and found another race that looked identical to us, meaning we arnt special and humanity is a common thing in the galaxy
Personally I love the idea of the Engineers. It adds a great back story to the origins of the Xenomorphs.
I do, too, but they need a "big bad" of their own to explain why they build such devastating weapons such as the pathogen, which I choose to believe is the Space Jockeys who they try to emulate because they are THEIR creators.
I interviewed Andrew for the GMS Magazine Podcast. I also created the ALien FUZION rpg in the 90s. It was a great conversation.
Malak in Hebrew means Messenger, some translate it as Angel.
I loved your video about how Prometheus was a remake of AvP. 😁
I tried finding those collected books, Fire and Stone and Life and Death and wholly crap are they expensive!!!
I really wish they had stuck with the original design for the Space Jockeys without humanising them. I feel like Prometheus could have been truly terrifying if they had. Imagine a living Space Jockey with the rebreather hanging from it's face, stalking Shaw and Co. through the halls of the derelict ship, that's what I was hoping to see. I enjoyed Prometheus but was also disappointed, I feel like there was a distinct lack of imagination in several areas of the film, particularly the monster design.
I wonder how much Dan O'Bannon was considering the space-folding, spice-addicted pilots from Dune. I could understand a design that the space jockey is like a thoroughly mutated engineer. Although tbh, no explanation of these aliens at all is more terrifying.
Do you have any plans to do more comic narrations? I get lost in those and you do a very good job narrating them.
Yes I’ve been wanting to do a really long one and it’s been taking insanely long to put together.
1:42 the better word is 'canon'
What made me mad with these guys was that I loved the idea of them. I just didn't like either of the movies they were introduced in.
Romulus may have been a mixed bag but their appearance in that movie was actually a really neat surprise and I loved it.
the entire conceit of the Engineers was so underwhelming for me but it is the story now so i can only hope that if encounter them again they serve a trully interesting purpose
Wish we could see the warrior culture of the engineers. I believe I read somewhere that the warrior part of their society are not allowed onto their home world.
I think the Engineers are like the Arcturians, humans who got abducted and mutated by the original, real and true Space Jockeys. Maybe as some sort of disciples, which would explain how they managed to copy the Space Jockey biotechnology.
And the time travel has to be a big no-no. Time travel has always been an endless fountain of plot holes. Must be avoided like the plague.
outstanding
reads of those two comics would be amazeballs 😎😉
Oh shit Alien Theory dropped
More information on the Engineers thankyou
Great video as always. Thanks, Derek.
I wish they had left the space jokey unexplained - explaining a mystery is like explaining a magic trick, you rob it of what makes it unique.
Love your content!
Only thing I miss personaly is Termintor content.
I like the engineers but what ‘pisses me off’ is how I feel Ridley didn’t do them justice.. the films are supposed to explore them more yet we don’t see their homeworld, we don’t learn much more about their species.. they’re effectively just a cameo in films which are supposed to shine a spotlight on them.
It's that school of modern narrative where everything is an origin, forever, and nothing that matters about the characters or the world is ever explored in an interesting way.
@@jneilson7568amen
I liked the addition of the engineers into the world. It just needs to be done right moving forward or it will become silly.
I'd rather never see them or anything from Prometheus and Covenant ever again. The worst part of Romulus was the engineer creature and black goo showing up. Ruined the film for me.
@@scottneil1187 we need to tailor these films, media and content to your tastes so the franchise revitalizes and grows out of our thorax for your enjoyment. Discovery awaits.
Other than that nice involvement you have here
I do love the idea that the Engineers are somehow related to a previous Space Jockey civilization. The fact this is a crackpot theory in-universe too makes it even better.
My personal headcanon on this is that the Space Jockeys created the Engineers to be the equivalent of Synthetics (doing menial labor, etc.). But eventually the Engineers rebelled against them & struck out on their own. & while they kept much of the Space Jockey's biomechanical technology & designs, their creations were more mechanical than biological. Hence why their ships look organic, similar to the Space Jockey's on LV-426, except made of just metal & why their suits are still biomechanical: they're designs taken/inherited from their creators.
I need that engineers training & diet routine. Theyre jacked!! 🤣
“Lack of a better word , official “
Cannon is another word that fits the description
They need to be explored!
Dam this got buried in my “watch later” playlist… was wondering what that strange hunger was I couldn’t satisfy
Awesome! I always wanted this lore to be explored more in the movies.
Pity Ridley completely botched it.
My favourite head cannon is that the engineers we see in Prometheus and in covenant are a seed race, and that the space jockeys from alien are the original. Please let there be hope and reject some mystery back into the series
Awesome vid!!! Loved it!
25:00 Funny how in Aliens Vs Avengers #3 we see the engineers return to comic form as this video was being made
As always thx for another great deep dive ☮️☮️
The Engineers are very interesting. I’d like to see the elephant theme come back in some fashion.
Perfect video to fill the time till Monster Hunter Wilds finishes unpacking! Thanks AT!
I like the Engineers' inclusion to the Alien universe very much. I do hope we'll get more lore and movies in the future.
I have the Alien RPG and its handled very well in there
Love the idea, but still wish it had been done separately from Alien.
Exactly, if Ridley was done with the Alien he could have just went ahead and made his arty farty film about androids and not tied it to the franchise.
..just look at the first picture. This should not have been in an Alien movie. Not this way was it intentioned by Giger.
Wonderful content
0:36 Or *Leviticus-223* Look that up in the Bible. I luv the Engineers in Prometheus, their design is very unique how their biosuits seem to meld with their skin, it leaves the idea that they themselves may actually be Artificial versions of the actual Engineers in robes, specifically the Sacrificial Engineer in the opening prologue of the movie. It just never bothered me that Ridley chose to make that Elephantine "Space Jockey" from ALIEN a complete outer-suit; or "Chair suit". Because how I look at it, studying the *Space Jockey* sitting in that chair you can clearly see not just the Elephantine head with trunk, but two very distinct, long ARMS. So at end of the day the Space Jockey itself is still very much HUMANOID!
This is what I dont get about many Prometheus haters and fans who hate the approach Ridley took for the Engineers. Even in a old Alien comic that explores backstory to the "Space Jockeys" it shows them with a totally Humanoid design, standing upright, bipedal with Arms, Legs, and their elephantine head, wearing a space suit kind of protective helmet. Still totally humanoid. So no one has ever even tried to make the Space Jockeys look spectacularly ALIEN, and I mean like those Martian beings in War of the Worlds.
Ridley added so much *World Building* to the Engineers/Space Jockeys. Them looking totally Human, just with Greco, Marble like skin tone, no hair follicles whatsoever, is original and plays more toward that whole "Ancient Astronaut" theory. Thats purely what Ridley Scott was going for, the idea that they created us; and even Holloway asks "but who created them?" Ofwhich his question is never answered but you could say GOD, created the Engineers, in God's own image.
Jon’s reasoning for the space jockeys being…too alien essentially for a story is wild.
I like the idea of the engineers. But I am insanely disappointed by how afraid and narrow minded they were to embrace the space jockeys. Making them human like isn’t “afraid to piss people off” to me. It’s afraid to dream big and get creative. And it shows in the film. Prometheus is fun but rushed and weirdly simple, a can of worms and definitely a positive addition but man.
It’s fun to talk about to this day! Good or bad!
I feel making them look "Human" as in WE are based off of them is fine, but what they should have gone for was to make the Engineers totally "Alien" to us, as in they are not War like in anyway. Their art looks totally weird and hideous to us because they see things very differently to us. Their reverence of the Xenomorph, how they see other lifeforms. It should really be that everything about their way of life, and thinking should be absolutely unrelatable to us, alien and just almost inconceivable, almost incomprehensible.
I want to know, in detail so to speak - what was on the mural in the ampule room, what did it mean?
What was going on?
I personally like the idea of the engineers but I think Ridley dropped the ball big time , coulda been great.
I am so pumped about Alien Earth. I am eager to watch a show about Alien where the whole crew isn't killed one by one until the movie ends. Engineers? Creation mythos? ...Sign me up...
I wish I had time to deep dive into this, so thanks for the info
The channel Project ACHERON has a animated series Alien Awakening that takes a different approach of this lore. Combining Engineer & the original Space Jockey as two separate entities weaving a different tale that truly feels very atmospheric and eerie mythos.
I once thought Prometheus is THE BEST SCI FI MOVIE EVER
I would like to learn more about the engineers and the black goo. Why was the goo made? Are the engineers extinct? I’m curious about their history, plus how much they know about xenomorphs.
The way music is mentioend as a language and a way to see various things, almost as if talking of other dimensions, reminds me of a Lovectaftian short story, the music of Eric Zhan.
On your last point, I would like them to see a deeper exploration into the Engineer civilization. As you said, maybe they were imitating their creators, the space jockey and the space jockey themselves could not be the first creators but be a reflection of something beyond our comprehension, even beyond theirs. It harkens back to creators and creations, becoming arrogant and calling ourselves gods, first the Space Jockeys, then the Engineers, then us, then androids. A vicious cycle. As to the time traveling aspect, I think the Marvel crossover comics AVA can provide interesting ideas that could make this canon a way. Maybe they have learned how to traverse different realities. Sort of like the Watchers species but not yet that advanced.
I love SD Perry she’s a part of alien and resident evil my favorites
It should be noted that the Last Engineer's phrasing implies that he COULD extend Weyland's life. He just didn't want to. Based tbh.
I missed these videos❤
Gonna watch this about 16 times
Engineers = Annunaki
Great video. The engineers are a real mystery I hope we get explore in more depth in future films and tv (Alien: Earth).
One aspect I hoped you’d touch on was the drastic difference in spacecraft design between the Prometheus prologue and the design of the juggernaut. Could this just be an evolution of design or a subtle hint that there are 2 factions of engineers: ones that seed life, and ones that destroy it?
Great video! 👍