Ore dake Level Up na Ken Season 2: Arise from the Shadow Episode 6 Discussion

Avicebrons said:
@keirashii Lol, couldn't have said it better myself.

@Love_And_Forward Average unhinged SL fan with some casual sexism thrown in for good measure.

@QcDiablo Another thing I believe a lot of people tend to not think about is something called "sequel inflation". A sequel will almost always have a higher rating than its predecessor (assuming the quality is not noticeably worse). Because most of the people who disliked the show would have already dropped it by the first season, thus each subsequent season will have a higher and higher density of people who like it relative to those who don't. You can see this in effect with essentially most shows that has multiple seasons.

This is why it's very hard to take the score of a sequel at face value.

Season 1 had 500 000 people who voted and it ended at a 8.24. This season so far only has 64 000 people who voted and it's at 8.84. And of course since it's still airing, most of the people who watch it are the ones who are those who really enjoy it (or masochists like me). So couple that with sequel inflation and the high rating starts to make a lot of sense.

keirashii said:
@Love_And_Forward You're telling me that Himmel and Heiter didnt have steaming gay sex? Man, I might reduce my score for Frieren to a 1 then. That headcanon I had was the only decent thing going on with that show.

I didnt ask btw

Love_And_Forward said:
@ryzxgum Did you miss out on me saying it was a trash plot? :D

GarudoHS said:
(Why Cha Hae-In take pickaxe to a dungeon? Cos she wants Jin-Woo to say "I make you mine")
😎

Avicebrons said:
My rating list literally has zero relevance with the topic at hand, so not sure why you're bringing that up. Nice red herring though.

AoT quite literally has increased in rating since season 1. First season is at 8.55, every season past that (with the exception of second season that remained roughly at the same rating) has increased. Bleach has also increased in rating, original laying at 7.96, meanwhile Thousand-Year Blood War at 9. You can see this in most animes. It's a real thing. It's not even "criticism", it's just an observation of ratings.

Again just think about it logically. When a sequel comes out, do you imagine there will be just as many people who disliked the show the first season that will continue to watch it? No, anyone can see that the majority of people who drop it are the ones that didn't like the show. Which means there's a higher density of people who do like the show. Now what happens when there's a higher density of people who do like the show? It increases in rating, cause there are fewer who dislike it that are bringing the ratings down.

Of course there are more factors at play than just sequel inflation. I'm not saying that it's the ONLY thing that is determining a higher rating. The sequel can simply genuinely be better. Maybe it aired at different station that appeals better to their demographic. The opposite is also true, maybe the sequel was that much worse that it had a lower score despite the inflation. Like you could list a lot of different things that could influence the final rating. I just added one factor to the other two the person I was replying to had mentioned.

Sequel inflation is NOT some magical thing that will GUARANTEE a SIGNIFICANT increase in rating so that it will top every chart as you seem to make it out like I'm saying. But it IS a REAL thing that affects every show. Some shows it affects less, some shows more. Some shows have other factors that significantly minimize the effects of sequel inflation, and some have less.

Also, as soon as someone calls someone else a "hater" I just know that they are insecure. It's just a buzzword to throw around so that you don't have to accept that not everyone likes a show that you like. And to add on top of that, it's double true if they feel the need to pull up your rating list. It's another way to desperately dismiss a person who don't like the thing you like. I could pull up your list and just say "Oh you rated x a rating of x/10, then I can't take your opinion seriously lol". It's just a way to dismiss a person.

It's ironic how you criticize my "criticism", yet your criticism of my "criticism" is also not proper. At least try to hide your hypocrisy lol.

SouthRzVa said:
So... why didn't Hae-In just pick up a weapon from one of the monsters she killed? Oh well. Guess she was just being nice and wanted to make sure to return that pickaxe to its owner.

Confused_100 said:
It does have relevance when you literally used it to dismiss others or agree with others.

Confused_100 said:
AOT actually fell after the seasons aired, every time…

Confused_100 said:
Otherwise you would see series that had awful sequels get better scores than they deserved.

I'm not saying that it's the ONLY thing that is determining a higher rating.

maybe the sequel was that much worse that it had a lower score despite the inflation.

Confused_100 said:
You are conveniently using not backed up claims to dismiss another while also using that to agree with what goes with your narrative.

Avicebrons said:
@Confused_100 Did you even read anything I said? You got basically everything wrong. Maybe you're too hot-headed and assume anything and everything I say will be some malicious slander which makes you unable to process the information properly.

Never ONCE did I do this. Point to where I used it to dismiss/agree with others? The point about sequel inflation was not in order to somehow dismiss people rating it highly (or lowly). It is merely an observation on why some sequels might have a higher rating. And why it can be hard to judge said rating at face value. This is not a dismissal in any way shape or form. If it was a dismissal, it would be the worst dismissal since it is something that applies universally, even to shows I myself love.

I think you're misinterpreting the point. They might've fallen relative to their ratings from when they aired, but this is not what I'm talking about. They increased in rating relative to the first season (again except the second which remained roughly the same). This is the point of sequel inflation. That the overall rating is increased because people who dislike it leave and people who like it stay, when a sequel comes out. But once again, this is just ONE factor of countless.

No? I quite literally point blank said that sequel inflation was a FACTOR. You know what factor means, don't you?If you read this, then you wouldn't have said what you just said at all. This makes me question if you're even reading what I'm writing. Or maybe you are just being obtuse.

If we just apply common sense, everyone should understand that sequel inflation is a thing. You could for sure argue to what extent, but I don't think any reasonable person would actually deny its existence. Again, you can just open your eyes and see it in effect. I think around 75% or so of sequels are higher rated than the first season last time I checked. Now, this doesn't mean that ALL of those 75% are because of sequel inflation, but when it's such a high percentage, it's a clear pattern. And again, just use common sense and the logic follows.

If this is your justification for saying said buzzwords are used correctly, then point me to the quote in which I used a not backed up claim in order to dismiss another.

Look at your first reply, it agreed with someone who gave a 0/5 without justifying it. Someone who literally is known as the hater because his judgement is so flawed, it makes contradictory points to other animes like One punch man lol.

You also attacked someone who literally also said SL plot is trash, and called him average SL fan while accusing him of sexism for some reason.

Using your logic makes less sense in this case then. Guess why? More people are now watching the series than the ones who left… As in the number who are new are more than the numbers who left. Something similar happened to one piece, demon slayer and JJK. Yes this series got that popular, don’t believe me, look it up. The inflation only happens in the case of the opposite. Your case doesn’t make sense in theory. I gave reason on to why increase in rating has nothing to do with what you are saying. The best example is even one piece, it’s getting more views and popular every year, its rating is still increasing.

but you played a card you didn’t fully understand.

So it’s better that you are the one who needs to cool down and actually go criticise a series that deserves it, not one people already know the flaws of and you trying to overplay it.

Avicebrons said:
@Confused_100 It's funny how you still don't point to a comment where I used ratings to dismiss another.

First of all, I am not so invested that I know who is or isn't a resident hater, or even glazer. If I see something I agree with, I will agree, simple as that. And why would you expect some sort of essay to justify why you agree with a stance? If you have such a problem with what was said that you make a big deal out of it, then maybe direct it at the person who made the statement in the first place?

Keyword here being average "unhinged" fan. There's a gigantic difference. And it was a joke, as in when you tend to things like "most sane x fan" or shit like that. Regardless, no one should stand by what he said. And what do you even mean accusing him of sexism for some reason, he literally said "of course you're a woman" while bashing said person. That's blatantly sexists. Not sure why you're here defending it. Unless you want to be put in the same box.

This season has only about 14% of the number of people who rated it in comparison to the first season. And it's safe to assume that those who watch the second season are people who've seen the first season. And you even bring up One Piece, do you think the "more views" it gets are people who just skipped all episodes and jumped right into the latest ones? No, of course not.

Says the one who repeatedly misunderstands said card.

I barely even criticized the series and you went on a complete meltdown. I agreed with a person who criticized the series. I called someone an unhinged who by all means, love or hate the series, was unhinged. But that in and of itself wasn't even a criticism of the series. And finally I talked about a factor in regards to the rating, which didn't even have anything to do with the criticism of the series. This is why you're too hot headed. You see someone even remotely say anything that might be perceived as negative towards the series and you lose your marbles. If you truly think this series is that good, then you needn't be this insecure.

Bruh I never even actually said you were actually criticising lol. I said it in a satire manner as in “You are acting like you are criticising but you are not”. I know it’s hard to read but sure.

So it’s better that you are the one who needs to cool down and actually go criticise a series that deserves it

When you agree with someone, you do need to realise who you are agreeing with, guess why? You are encouraging bad behaviour without caring to know. Yes you are a FACTOR of it.

Finally again talking about percentage of people voting it, guess what? Every series had that, Dandadan had that and that was its first season… It has nothing to do with it being a sequel. It’s all natural that you would see some people rate it early and some who just wait, majority of people wait before scoring. But yet again that has nothing to do with it being a sequel. It having a higher score than even S1 when it was airing is an indication that most people enjoy it, and like I said “the number of people increased and didn’t decrease” like you were trying to implement. You are ignoring that fact on purpose because that’s the whole reason why I made fun of your reply in first place lol.

If I see encouraging of hate, then I come in.

but you are here acting like it’s bad without any justification

Avicebrons said:
@EvilJuju Pretty much. I think people should avoid trying to lock themselves in an echo chamber where only praise or extremely mild criticism are allowed. I think a true testament to a good show, or even a person who enjoys a show, is the endurance of tough criticism. Whenever I see someone who can't say anything negative about a show, or maybe the negative things they say are so minor and irrelevant that it doesn't matter, then it's much harder to take their views seriously.

You can take any one of my favorite shows and I'll turn into its number one "hater" in the amount of criticism I have for them. But that's also why I feel like the appreciation for them I have is genuine. Because I don't shut my eyes to criticism, I welcome it. I want the shows to be the best versions of themselves they can be, and the only way to do that is to allow in criticisms from all angles.

I think too many people are focusing on the "1/10" or "2/10" as invalid and "haters". But they forget the opposite end of the spectrum. Where for every blind "1/10", there are 10x as many blind "10/10". Both are a problem.

Avicebrons said:
@Confused_100
Either you don't know how to properly construct a sentence, or know how language works, but this heavily implies that you're saying I am criticizing.

Not really? That's a really dumb take. If I agree with something, I agree with it. If the worst human being in the entire world said that murder is bad, I'd agree with it. It doesn't matter that the person who said it is a bad person. I strongly doubt you are looking up every person's history when you agree with them. No one does. I agree with the statement, not the person.

Every sequel has that, which is my point. You are simply not understanding the actual phenomenon I'm describing and thus you make weird barely comprehensible statements about some imaginary phenomenon that I've never said. You are only making fun of yourself with this.

Let's just settle this once and for all. Deconstruct why the following example ISN'T true. If we have 100 people in a room and make them watch a movie. 50 people like it and think it's a 10/10, 50 people hate it and think it's a 1/10. So we poll them, we get an average score of 5.5/10. Now we tell everyone in this room "Hey, there's a sequel to this movie, who wants to see it?". Obviously the ones who disliked the movie will walk out. Leaving us with only the 50 who like it left. Even if the movie is of the exact same quality, the audience liked it exactly the same, no more, no less. Then when we now poll them, we will instead get a result of 10/10 instead of 5.5/10 despite the quality being the same. We would also most likely NOT have a bunch of new people coming in to watch the second movie, cause they would've had to watch the first movie first, and thus the process of filtration would continue.

This is what sequel inflation is. Explain to me how this isn't a real thing? You could argue that it's real BUT the factor of contribution in this specific case is negligible, that I might buy. But I won't buy you saying it's not a real thing. Nothing you've said so far has ever disproven that this very obvious thing is somehow not real. Every reasonable person should know it's real, the actual question you should be asking is to what extent does it affect a specific show.

Weird you never said anything about the sexist comment then. And instead focused on someone who you perceived as negatively influencing your precious show. It's almost like you don't think and talk logically, and you are hot headed and disrespectful. Someone who simply agreed with a statement, talked about a phenomenon (that didn't even criticize/hate on the show) and joked about an unhinged sexist comment. There should be nothing controversial here at all. Yet you have a meltdown about it. That tells me you're hot headed and not thinking clearly.

Never once did I "act like it's bad without any justification". The ONLY thing you've seen me criticize the show for here, is me agreeing with another person. That's literally it. Nothing more. You don't even know my justification. You don't know why I agreed. You don't know what specifically I agreed with. You really don't know anything.

Or should we apply this universally then? I want to see you call out each and every person here in the forum who agreed with someone else, even if they agreed on the show being good, and not write an essay of justification for it. You have to see how ridiculous you're being here. The truth is, you called me out because you like the show and you can't stand the fact that not everyone else likes it as well. So your blood boils when you see someone say something even remotely negative about and not coat it in a pretty paint beforehand by saying something along the lines of "but aside from that it's great". Now you know this makes you come across as a blind fan, so you try to guise it by jumping up on your high horse and pretending you're doing it to protect the community, when in reality you just want to protect the show. It makes you hot-headed, not logical.

Avicebrons said:
@Confused_100 Never once did I say or imply anything of the sort.

EvilJuju said:
@Me_Mario

Careful what you wish for. We live in a world where 90% of the 5 star movie reviews on Rotten Tomatoes are astroturfed. Where our favorite video game franchises are being released in unplayable state just because fans pre-order them despite being burned over and over by the same publisher. Where the only reviews worth reading on Amazon.com are the 1 star reviews, otherwise you are a sucker begging to be scammed.

Anime is not immune to this. Rating undeserving animes 10/10 and being "forgiving" leads to the destruction of our favorite franchises just like we saw in video games and movies.

You can call @keirashii a "hate watcher", but her unforgiving criticisms are on point. And other people's comments like "I felt nothing" "Ep 6 boss fight felt empty", this is not hate, this is disappointment. Much more scary.

I am first to admit that I am guilty of the same "forgiving" attitude across all facets of entertainment including Anime. But I am acutely aware where it leads, having seen COUNTLESS of my most treasured franchises go down hill or outright destroyed over the past decades.

People like @keirashii serve a much more important role that you might think, and I wish more of us were less forgiving in our ratings.

Bruh really can’t read the difference of context… smh. No wonder you can’t read why your logic doesn’t apply.

You literally ignored why it’s not sequel inflation in this particular case lol. I know you are in denial and all but cmon.

Plus you didn’t understand the concept of agreeing mindlessly. So say you agree with the statement but don’t understand the context, it’s your fault lol. So self defence is bad to you, by your logic since that counts as murder if that bad person was talking in that kind of context. See how meaning and context mean everything?

Also you are still coming back to the same “sexism” thing lol. You also tried to related average SL fan as unhinged, and I ignored that lol. Bruh if I wanted to make you look bad I would have done. If I wanted to disrespect you, I would have done it. But it seems my time trying to be respectful was wasted as you became the meaning of bait no real talk with a lot of fluff.

Your logic of 100 people in a room is again false, guess why? You are taking a sample based on what? You are ignoring the new people on the door waiting for their opinion. It’s like you are ignoring basic logic so that your opinion gets validated.

But if you want to keep this up, I could make one of your favourite series look worse than SL right now and see who is actually hot headed buzzword you keep throwing around…

You agreed with sentiment of “Felt nothing” because OP character destroyed the villIain. Same concept with one punch man… Now try again

Avicebrons said:
@Confused_100 Nor can you apparently, I've had to explain stuff to you like 50 times because you can't comprehend what I'm writing while simultaneously failing to write yourself.

No, I'm refocusing the point. There's a big difference. You are the one who has been constantly ignoring everything I've been saying. You don't even tackle what I said here. You're seriously going to call me out for ignoring, while simultaneously ignoring. Again, hide your hypocrisy.

The difference here is that the person saying it bears no difference in the meaning of the statement and it was the statement I agreed with. See the difference? I genuinely couldn't care less if they're a resident hater or not. I agreed with a portion of what they said and that's that.

Cause it was sexism. You are white knighting Solo Leveling, but apparently fine with defending sexism. And as I've already said, I said "average unhinged SL fan" as a jest, "unhinged" being the key word here. If you're not unhinged, you are not targeted. Clear enough for you? You have also not even attempted to be respectful, so don't even try with that. You immediately jumped down my throat, called me buzzwords and made a ton of assumptions based on essentially knowing nothing. That's the opposite of respectful.

Are you purposefully obtuse, or does it just come naturally? Obviously there's nuance. It was a simple example to showcase the core fundamentals of the sequel inflation. And you know you can't tackle it, because you know sequel inflation is real. I even tackled the "new people waiting at the door" with saying that it's a fair assumption that they wouldn't jump into the second movie without seeing the first. And when they see the first they go through the same filtration process that is sequel inflation.

Okay? I genuinely couldn't care less. As I said, I'm fine with my favorite shows being criticized or even "hated" on.

And you understand the full depth of my justifications for it in the context of Solo Leveling relative to One Punch Man? No. Because you quite literally know absolutely nothing aside from me agreeing. You don't know why, or how it relates to Solo Leveling specifically, or anything. Now, try again.

You wanted sequel inflation to be a big factor, but I clearly showed it didn’t as your observation of “less people” is factually incorrect.

No I ignored first because I wanted this conversation to be focused ironically enough. You went back to sexism claim because you couldn’t defend the point I made lol. So what you said about unhinged SL fan was satire, by your own logic I can say also the sexism point was satire lol. And you call me the hypocrite… smh

Weird the buzzwords are only coming from you like obtuse and sexism lol. But sure, it’s me…

New people coming in greater number compared to people who left makes the whole conversation of sequel inflation mute. How do you not get that? Say you lost 2% of your audience but gained 4% in comparison. Would that make sequel inflation a thing? Nope. Going from S1 to S2 doesn’t increase the rating by that much. Best comparison I can give is Bleach TYBW, part 1 had best numbers but afterwards part 2 and 3 never touched the highest number part 1 reached. Yes they reached 9 but they didn’t reach 9.4.

There are multiple reasons why sequel inflation makes zero sense in multiple reasons. The new people coming actually balance it out and you are ignoring these people on purpose because it doesn’t suit the narrative you are trying to tell.

You say you don’t care, but I doubt it…

Btw if you don’t see the one punch man inspiration, I don’t know if you watched the series from beginning or not. The biggest difference you don’t see Saitma’s full progression, here you see Sung jin woo’s. They face an impossible challenge, he comes in and deals with it in a cool way, like Saitma ironically. The only challenges they would face is something not normal. Saitma in S3 if not S4 would face it. Sung jin woo in next fight. You call it no tension, what would you call the final fight of OPM in S1? Lol. Yes, no tension… But why is it good? It accepts what it is, and does it the best way it can. It doesn’t try to be something it is not.

Avicebrons said:
@Confused_100 No, I never once said or implied I wanted it to be a big factor. I even said multiple times that you could argue about the extent of the factor it was and I might've even agreed. I'm talking about it being a factor at all to begin with, big or small. You never once made the point mute.

So then you are just a raging hypocrite by your own logic here. And I never "went back to sexism claim". I've defended properly the points you've made, you just refused to see it.

Yes. Because unlike you, I don't make assumptions to use them. That's when they just become meaningless buzzwords. The sexism was from a genuine sexist statement that you can open your eyes yourself and see. And you are literally being obtuse because you have on SOOOOOO many instances failed to understand things (seemingly on purpose) in hopes that it would slip by so you don't have to tackle them head-on.

How do you not get that they (generally, or at least majority) don't slip past the first season and thus they will still get filtered? You brought up Bleach, it increased insanely much from S1 to TYBW (essentially S2). And you again like to be obtuse and pretend like I'm saying it's some magical phenomenon and not just a factor. Obviously it's not going to go from 9 to 9.4. 9 is already insanely high and extremely difficult to reach, even with sequel inflation. Sequel inflation won't just infinitely increase the ratings, there is obviously a soft cap of sorts. If S1 filtered out let's just pretend and say 90% of people who disliked it. Then S2 can only filter out a maximum 10% after that. And by S3, maybe the number would be so small that the difference in rating is negligible. This is why it won't just increase infinitely. As there are a finite number of people to filter out. The biggest difference will always be from S1 to S2, after that, it has lost a lot of its effectiveness. And once again, I feel like a broken record, it's only a factor.

Nope, never ignored it. In fact, I've acknowledged them by flat out saying that these people most likely won't skip past the first season. Meaning they still get filtered. (Most) People aren't just going to jump into the latest season of MHA or whatever if they haven't seen the ones before. These "new" people are people who either seen the prior ones and now jump on board the train, or they are still the same people but they appear as new for a multitude of reasons such as exploring different avenues of consuming the product or finally they are people who genuinely just skipped through, which would be a vast negligible minority.

And I don't care that you doubt it lol.

Cool, don't care. You've never bothered actually engaging in good faith and just made assumptions about me, so not sure why I would want to engage with your justifications here.

Just to make this response shorter: So you agree that sequel inflation isn’t the reason why this season has a high rating to begin with?

I am not being obtuse, you are projecting the same things you did on me. I react to the person I meet with the same actions they do. It’s not hypocrisy, I would like to call it “if you don’t like it on yourself, don’t do it to others” kind of justice. Because ironically when I faced your “unhinged SL fan” comment, you said it was satire, so by logic you could have easily assumed that “sexism” is satire as well but oh well you like to judge others but not yourself, it’s okay.

Btw if you want me to admit he was sexist, I would assume he was trying to trigger the other account as their comments in the entire website is quite questionable and he even said that but that’s an assumption from my part. I saw both being asinine so made fun of both, you can look up even lol.

I judge fairly, you don’t.

if you don’t care about my justification, I can assume that ironically good faith wasn’t even in the table to begin with.